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Is God the Author of Suffering?
In a previous post, I quoted John 9:1
As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world."
In this passage Jesus seems to be saying that God purposely made the man blind so that God’s works might be displayed through the blind man. This says that God made this man to suffer all those years so that he could be cured at this time and thus show God’s glory. This has some troubling ramifications and I’m not sure how to work this out.
One idea I debate within myself is the idea of predestination. I have been through some MP3’s I downloaded from R. C. Sproul’s web site. It is called, “Chosen by God.” In this 3-hour series, he makes the case for predestination. Although it is a powerful case, I’m still not certain where I come down on that issue.
However, the passage above seems to imply predestination and it also implies that God is the author of suffering.
What do you think?
Posted by The Vorlon at January 17, 2006 7:39 PMPredestination and suffering. When are you going to discuss a really deep subject? ;-)
Being the good Calvinist that I am, I opt for predestination. There is no such thing as chance. While there are numerous places in the Bible that discuss predestination, my favorites are Ps 139 and Rom 8. I also enjoy the accounts of Joseph and his brothers.
Poor Joseph was so hated by his brothers that they plotted his death. Just as they were about to kill him, a carrivan headed for Egypt came by and he was sold into slavery instead. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Once in Egypt, Joseph was sold to a high official in the Egyptian government named Potiphar. Potiphar soon put Joseph in charge of the household instead of working in manual labor. Providence!
When Potiphar's wife accused Joseph of attempted rape, Joseph was sent to prison. But, not just any prison, it was the royal prison which is kind of like our white collar prisons. Once in prison, he soon became in charge and ended up running the prison from the inside. Providence!
While in prison, Joseph rubbed shoulders with white collar criminals who remembered his ability to interprete dreams. Eventually, the pharaoh sent for him and the rest is history.
Joseph may have been in prison but he was in a safe place until it was his time to shine. Providence!
The question with providence is how much freewill do we really have? When I read about the plagues in Exodus, I read several times that the Pharaoh was going to let the people go but God hardened his heart.
Baalam was to be paid a small fortune if he would pronounce a curse on Israel. Yet, everytime that he openned his mouth, a blessing came out instead of a curse. There are other places in the Bible where God has intervened with the freewill of an individual in order to bring about his desired results.
Suffering is another matter. Suffering comes as a result of the fall of Adam. Is God the author of suffering? No. Does he allow it? Yes.
When we look at the book of Job, we see that Ha Satan (Hebrew for "the accuser") is standing before God. When God points out what a fine man Job is, Satan points out that the only reason that Job is righteous is because God has blessed him. So, God lets Satan have his way with Job.
The daughter of our former minister came down with a serious kidney disorder. For a long time they asked themselves "why us?" Then they came to the realization of "why not us?" Why should we be any different than any one else?
Suffering will continue until evil has been chained.
FWIW
Posted by: Ned Swift at January 18, 2006 1:52 PMAlthough I lean towards predistination, my main complaint is, if the game is rigged from the start, why is it played?
Posted by: Ted at January 18, 2006 3:59 PMIt is rigged but only to a certain extent. While I believe in predestination, I also believe in freewill. Predestination should never be confused with fatalism which basically says that you have no freewill.
Freewill and fatalism are two extreems. Predestination is somewhere between the two. You have freewill but you were also predestined. This means that there will be somethings that you have no control over.
Think of it as being in the military. In particular, I think back to my basic training. When my day started, we did our basic bathroom things and got ready. Then we would get dressed and go to formation. What we did and how we did it was our own choice as long at the results were the same. It didn't matter if we shaved first and then showered or vice versa. Likewise, when we ate breakfast, it didn't matter what we ate or how much. Our choice because it didn't matter.
But on the day of our PT test, breakfast was limited to one hard boiled egg and water. Why? Because they knew that we would puke our guts out if we ate more. On that day, we had no choice because breakfast DID matter.
We have free will on the things that don't matter. But when God needs us to do certain things, we have no choice.
As in the military, there are many things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about or even understand. The powers of good and evil rage constantly.
One night a few years ago, I was awaken about 2am with what felt like a shove and someone yelling "PRAY!!". I laid there staring at the ceiling for a few moments saying "what just happened?" But, since I was now wide awake, I got and decided to pray.
I really didn't know what to pray about so I spent the next two hours praising God. Finally around four, I went back to bed as I had to get up in another hour. Later that morning, the Columbine shootings took place.
FWIW
Posted by: Ned Swift at January 18, 2006 6:50 PMI'm not sure I completely buy your differentiation between freewill and predestination. You rather imply that we are like luge drivers. We can take the curves on the high side, the low side, or in the middle, but we cannot leave the course. We’re still going down the slot and we MUST take each curve in the course. You’re saying God let’s us decide, but only on the inconsequential stuff.
I hope I’m not mischaracterizing your point.
Very interesting story, BTW. I have heard of these kinds of stories before, but always fourth hand. Yours is the first first-hand account I’ve encountered. Out of curiosity, do you consider this a sign from God? If so, what do you think He intended to accomplish?
It must have given you the willies.
Posted by: Ted at January 18, 2006 7:42 PMFreewill, predestination and fatalism are a complex topic to say the least. The luge course sounds more like fatalism. Predestination still allows for freewill. It is not that you can't make the wrong choice, it's more like you won't make the wrong choice. I know, this sounds like symantics but there is a difference. Even the luge driver can make a wrong choice and go off the track but chooses to stay on the track.
On to the other event. The way I see it, there is a continuous war between good and evil. And at any given time there are thousands(?) of people in prayer trying to counteract the forces of evil. My time in the early morning helped to reinforce the effort against evil that day. What impact it had is unknown. But, by all accounts, the shooters had intended greater damage then what actually took place. If the bombs had exploded I'm sure that the damage would have been much greater. And yes, I did feel very strange when I heard the news.
Once I had a dream that I was in a high rise office building when something happened. Ceiling tiles started falling, emergency lights came on and there was dust and debris everywhere. People were trying to use the elevators and I told them to use the stairs. There was a woman trying to get money out of an ATM. I told her that she needed to get out of the building. She told me that she needed money for cab fare.
I got into the stairwell and discovered that the stairs were missing several floors above me. I made my was down the stairs to the lobby and exited the building. Suddenly, it occured to me that the builing was going to fall so I started running as fast as I could to get away from the building.
This was in August before 9/11. Freaky!
Posted by: Ned Swift at January 19, 2006 9:49 AMPlease let me know if I occur in any of your dreams.
Posted by: Ted at January 19, 2006 1:35 PM